{"id":3194,"date":"2013-03-28T10:12:37","date_gmt":"2013-03-28T10:12:37","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/markstephensarchitects.com\/?p=3194"},"modified":"2013-03-28T10:12:37","modified_gmt":"2013-03-28T10:12:37","slug":"irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/","title":{"rendered":"Irish Planning Myth #5 – You need to be 'in with the planners' to get pp (espec 4 @paulmknally )"},"content":{"rendered":"

This Planning myth follows on from a comment by fellow architect Paul McNally<\/a>:<\/p>\n

“Hi Mark,
\nLike the topic.
\nOne of my favourite myths is that clients need a designer who is \u2018in\u2019 with the planners. i.e. has an inside track, wink and nod, a bit of pull (which the Irish fetishise!) in order to be able to \u2018get planning\u2019. I am not sure where this comes from, but it stinks of the bad old days when Irish people bowed and scraped to get ahead in life. It is like people do not realise that you have rights, property rights, rights to develop, and the planning process in my opinion is a fairly transparent and predictable process. Sure, a bit of experience helps in understanding development plans, planning policies and good design principles, but given these what the planners want is usually in black and white in the development plan and if you are an architect you will be able to design within that framework.
\nPerhaps this is a myth perpetuated by unqualified designers, such as the draughtsperson or engineer in order to balance their inability to design with a comprehensive grasp of aesthetics, context, culture or spatial complexity.<\/p>\n

I am basing this on a wide planning experience covering at least six different rural county councils and as many borough or city councils over 15 years.
\nmany thanks!
\nPaul McNally MRIAI”<\/em><\/p>\n

And Paul is correct, it is a myth and is a legacy of the brown envelope days of getting your permission with a nice nod & a wink and a bundle of notes. What is required however is:<\/p>\n

  • Good design (ahem)\n
  • Making sure you adhere to the County Development requirements; occupancy, scenic areas etc…\n
  • Making sure you adhere to technical standards regarding effluent disposal, road safety for example.\n

    And remember: It isn’t the design that will scupper your planning application…<\/a><\/p>\n

    But have the brown envelope days really gone? Is the Irish planning system more likely to promote brown envelopes?<\/p>\n

    I can honestly say that I haven’t been party to any underhand planning dealings but I have been surprised when planning magically goes through when a Councillor or TD gets involved; who’s to know what is going on behind closed doors?<\/p>\n

    What is interesting is the difference between the Irish system (a single planner making decisions that then get ‘signed-off’ by higher person) vs. the UK system where frequently planning committees are involved. As I have experience of both systems I have really enjoyed the BBC2 series ‘The Planners’<\/em> and to be honest I’d like to see the UK system implemented here in Ireland. You’d think that a committee of this type would be less likely to be ‘bought’ than a single planner but as we’ve seen with the raft of people taking ‘donations’ over the rezoning of planning land that is obviously not the case. Maybe Ireland is has more corruptible people in power?<\/p>\n

    I’d love to hear your comments on this issue…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    This Planning myth follows on from a comment by fellow architect Paul McNally: “Hi Mark, Like the topic. One of my favourite myths is …<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false}}},"categories":[15,17,37,53,62,73,78,85,97],"tags":[208,256,703,893,969,994,995,1146],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"yoast_head":"\nIrish Planning Myth #5 - You need to be 'in with the planners' to get pp (espec 4 @paulmknally ) - MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Irish Planning Myth #5 - You need to be 'in with the planners' to get pp (espec 4 @paulmknally ) - MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"This Planning myth follows on from a comment by fellow architect Paul McNally: “Hi Mark, Like the topic. One of my favourite myths is ...\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/markstephensarchitects\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2013-03-28T10:12:37+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Mark Stephens\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@architectmark\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@architectmark\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Mark Stephens\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"2 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/\",\"name\":\"Irish Planning Myth #5 - You need to be 'in with the planners' to get pp (espec 4 @paulmknally ) - MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2013-03-28T10:12:37+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-03-28T10:12:37+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#\/schema\/person\/ab47a045fabd6f82093f8712cd70cdbb\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Irish Planning Myth #5 – You need to be 'in with the planners' to get pp (espec 4 @paulmknally )\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/\",\"name\":\"MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS\",\"description\":\"Making your dream reality.\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#\/schema\/person\/ab47a045fabd6f82093f8712cd70cdbb\",\"name\":\"Mark Stephens\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/4e6798f37c3a7dda989317a5b7527a69?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/4e6798f37c3a7dda989317a5b7527a69?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Mark Stephens\"},\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/author\/markstephensarchitects\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Irish Planning Myth #5 - You need to be 'in with the planners' to get pp (espec 4 @paulmknally ) - MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Irish Planning Myth #5 - You need to be 'in with the planners' to get pp (espec 4 @paulmknally ) - MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS","og_description":"This Planning myth follows on from a comment by fellow architect Paul McNally: “Hi Mark, Like the topic. One of my favourite myths is ...","og_url":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/","og_site_name":"MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS","article_publisher":"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/markstephensarchitects","article_published_time":"2013-03-28T10:12:37+00:00","author":"Mark Stephens","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@architectmark","twitter_site":"@architectmark","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Mark Stephens","Est. reading time":"2 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/","url":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/","name":"Irish Planning Myth #5 - You need to be 'in with the planners' to get pp (espec 4 @paulmknally ) - MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#website"},"datePublished":"2013-03-28T10:12:37+00:00","dateModified":"2013-03-28T10:12:37+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#\/schema\/person\/ab47a045fabd6f82093f8712cd70cdbb"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/irish-planning-myth-5-you-need-to-be-in-with-the-planners-to-get-pp-espec-4-paulmknally\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Irish Planning Myth #5 – You need to be 'in with the planners' to get pp (espec 4 @paulmknally )"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/","name":"MARK STEPHENS ARCHITECTS","description":"Making your dream reality.","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#\/schema\/person\/ab47a045fabd6f82093f8712cd70cdbb","name":"Mark Stephens","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/4e6798f37c3a7dda989317a5b7527a69?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/4e6798f37c3a7dda989317a5b7527a69?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Mark Stephens"},"url":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/author\/markstephensarchitects\/"}]}},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p7mTIF-Pw","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3194"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3194"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3194\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3194"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3194"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.markstephensarchitects.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3194"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}