An Ancillary Certificate S.I.9 conundrum for @janmc_ @form_architect & @BRegsBlog

This interesting conundrum rose its head today and whilst I’d normally tweet; the blog gives me more space (and characters) to explain.

• We’re just about to submit commencement information for a new house in Mayo.

• I’m collating the Ancillary Certificates which at the moment are:

– Structural Engineer (Part A Structure)
– BER Asssesor (Part L)
– MHVR Designer (Part F)
– Environmental Consultant (for septic tank/percolation – Part H)

The Environmental Consultant made an interesting point that the design of the percolation area comes from the EPA manuals and the design of the septic tank comes from the manufacturer.

So, questions:

• Is he responsible for design?
• Does he need to complete an Ancillary Certificate?
• Should he have PI insurance?
• Do I need to check his PI insurance?
• Who am I missing in the above list?

Answers on a postcard (or simply comment below):

10 thoughts on “An Ancillary Certificate S.I.9 conundrum for @janmc_ @form_architect & @BRegsBlog

  1. The list you mention is a prediction I presume, just like the Preliminary Inspection plan. (PIP).
    I think you will end up with a lot more ancillary certs by the time your finished.
    E.g. Window, is glass in doors and below 80cm security glass?
    Heating, has it been pressures tested?
    Foundations, was a concrete cube test done?
    The electrician must sign off on his work too… etc etc.
    The RIAI have issued sub contractor certs an d sub sub contractor certs..
    Also how many site visits are really needed, as per Inspection Notification Framework (INF). Can the PIP and INF be the same plan, why not.
    If only we had a case study (template) to work to of a average Dwelling house !
    Sorry more questions than answers.

    1. Cheers Zeno, here’s my take:

      I think there’s 2 aspects to this:

      1. Design certification – these will require the ANCILLARY CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE: DESIGN

      2. Construction Certification – these will require the Ancillary Certificate of Compliance on Completion

      Aspects requiring specialist design such as structural design or curtain walling will require 1. and then 2. (that they’ve designed it correctly and that it’s installed correctly)

      Products on site that have a CE mark will need to be checked by the Assigned Certifier i.e. the toughened glass in your example or if it’s part of the specialist design/certification at 1. & 2. by the Ancillary Certifier

      Any subcontractors (such as electricians) provide Ancillary certificates direct to the main contractor

      Mark

      1. True but the assigned certifier better make sure on a week to week basis that they are submitted, as the AC will have to submit in the end. So jump on it if one is missing right away, rather than at the end! May be to late by then.

  2. Oh let’s go down the rabbithole here.

    Is he responsible for design?

    He is responsible for the trial hole tests etc., upon which the design is based – so I’d be looking for an Ancillary for that aspect at least – even tho it isn’t “design”, but the design is dependent on it.

    • Does he need to complete an Ancillary Certificate?

    • Should he have PI insurance?

    He certainly should have PI, and should’ve had it before BCAR anyway – I assume he is registered as approved by Councils too.

    • Do I need to check his PI insurance?

    A very interesting question. Might be prudent to do so, but you’re an architect not a broker. I recall asking a “structural engineer” for his PI, when I finally got it, it turns out he wasn’t insured for structural design, as he was only an EngTech.

    • Who am I missing in the above list?

    How long do you have ?

  3. Everyone completing an EPA site suitability assessment should have PI and must comply with ‘duties of designers’.
    Prefabricated Septic Tanks must be certified to comply with EN12566-1.

  4. It may be another environmental engineer or suitably qualified person who carried out the percolation tests and produced the Site Suitability report. That does require separate PI insurance. But dealing specifically with the case of overseeing the installation and is the Environmental engineer the designer in that case?

    As soon as anybody specifies something and decides where something is physically located on site then they are the designer of that element of the overall scheme. If you as the Architect specify 5 rows of 20N concrete blocks 5 metres long, then have you not designed a wall? You didnt design the block. That is produced to various standards and codes. You simply chose concrete blocks from a list of various options and materials and how best to arrange the products to form a wall. You are certiying the design of the wall and all the elements contained within. The same with the foul waste water treatment system. So the design is certified by the designer, whoever decided on the method of waste water disposal…septic tank / treatment plant…percolation area / reedbed and laid out where these elements were to be located on site. Whoever is responsible for overseeing the installation certifies the installation. So the Environmental engineer is the person who states that the installation is correct and complies with the Planning Permission and any guidelines or regulations. And yes, they should have PI to cover the certification of the installation, stating that he/she certifies that everything is put together as specified and in a correct manner. The products used and where its located on site is not their problem or what they are certifying…thats the designers role. That its installed to the correct specifications and standards is.

      1. I’d like to tease out something in Kevin’s explanation. An architect may design a wall in terms of the placement, height, preferred thickness and finishing material of a building element, but where there is a structural engineer appointed AS WELL, it is the engineer who will normally be called upon to design the wall in terms of its structural rigidity, load and wind load bearing capacity as well as the detailed specification of the concrete blocks, etc.

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